Official Luthiers Forum!

I am practicing to get the arch contours correct for an archtop and have twice now used lumber yard pine. With all its knots and twist and other tough things to carve. Besides buying a lesser archtop billet and possible wrecking that what other sources came you recommend. At worst I do have 4 pieces of 9x3" sitka I could use, but I really wanted to use them when I know what I'm doing.. thanks

Try poplar it carves good,and is cheap from small lumber mills. it's also available 1 1/2- 2" thick. It might actually make a good back and sides for a playable low cost practice guitar.

Al

Talk to Steve at Colonial or one of the other sponsor tonewood suppliers.
Two of them that I spoke with indicated that they had "practice grade"
wood available that's not on anyone's web sites. I was inquiring about
sides, but I'm sure someone will have low grade spruce tops that you
could practice your archtop carving on.

Plus, if you get lucky and carve a top you like, it would be nice if it was in
spruce, even if it was a lower grade!

Mike, you've carved two tops now -- dress rehearsal is over big fella -- time to pull out the good spruce and maple

Seriously, do you have Benedetto's book? If not it trully is worth getting. In his book, he uses a depth stop to drill down to the depth of the contour desired. Once all drilled -- you can hog off wood till all you see are the dimples of the plate. The book also has arching templates which are real handy your first couple of attempts.

Or I can send you or post some "how to pics" if you'd like.

of course I have the book, what a silly question.      I understand the concepts, but I was having some trouble with the rough contour of the outside. I was trying to use a safety planer to remove a lot of the waste before I took over by hand. I have made up the templates in lexan that are in the back of the book and I also set up a pin and depth stop for my drill press.
By the way, I also carved a mandoline top for practice too. Not sure why I can't seem to get on with the real one... Oh did I mention I bent several sets of sides and built three necks too. None of that really counted..
As for your other silly question, Of course I would love to see the photos. Either here if you think others would too or e-mail them to me. I would appreciate either very much..
Mike

Mike, my initial reply was not meant to be condescending which I suspect is how you took it. (The danger of internet communication).

Sounds like you've got it all figured out -- good luck.

On a similar note, have you seen Benedetto's videos. They are boring as all get out but they show him carve a top in about 45 minutes. And it's all real time. (This is the problem with the videos, he sets the camera on a tripod and just does his thing, no editing to speak of). I don't remember if the book covers it or not but I really like how he contours the inside. He puts a bolt into the drill press table and sets the stop on the quill to be the thickness he is after. Then just goes crazy drilling holes. With the contour of the outside resting on the bolt, it's pretty much a perfect match. All that's left is cleaning it up with finger planes.
To your original quesiton, Poplar is a good, cheap wood to practice on. Keep in mind that it will be much easier to carve than maple.

Anthony,

I would love to see the "how to" pics if you would be kind enough to post them.

Kevin

Anthony, your right the internet conversations can be misleading... because you took my responce to be that I thougth you were condescending.... No no no I didn't sorry if my reply made you think that.....I was just teasing about having the book, kind of like I thought everyone owned it... My comments about the other things I have practiced on was an agreement with you. Time to get off the pot as they say!!
Heck, any help i can get is welcomed...   Now, where are those darn photos???????

IGNORE SEE BELOW *HOPEFULLY*Anthony Z38770.907349537

Guys, I don't know whats wrong but I am having trouble uploading the pics I promised...I'll try from another computer later tonight.

Starting with the Benedetto templates (or your own thoughts on appropriate arch) I draw on graph paper a set of arch profiles for each the upper and lower bouts, waist, centre of the waist to heel end edge and length of the body. Illustration below is for the Lower Bout....

_________________________________
Next I take each of the above described arching templates and plot in one inch increments along the vectors shown in yellow....

________________________________________________
By eye I join each of the marks made plotted on the top from the above picture, creating a "contour map". On each of the lines I mark the height of the arch.

________________________________
Using your drill press and depth stop, drill 1/4" holes to the prescribed depth on each of the contour maps (sorry I don't have a photo) but the Benedetto book has an illustration to that effect.
__________________________
Once done drilling -- I get out the angle grinder fitted with a Lancelot and start hogging away stock till I only see dimples from the drill holes. Finishing up (on maple plates with Angle grinder fitted with 60 drit paper) using finger planes, scraper, orbital sander...etc. Picture below shows a top and back plate after I've put away the Angle grinder/Lancelot.

Anthony Z38771.4091782407

[QUOTE=Pwoolson] On a similar note, have you seen Benedetto's videos. They are boring as all get out but they show him carve a top in about 45 minutes. And it's all real time. .......[/QUOTE]

Paul -- boring is right -- I've got the videos and have never managed to stay awake that long. Anthony Z38770.9230555556

Anthony

Great pics and explanation. I've always wondered how to do that without a big machine. You are very gracious for sharing. Thank you.

Great Stuff!!

_________________
Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

anthony,
thank you for posting the tutorial. It will be very beneficial for me. Seeing the photos definately cleared up a few points. One question, My understanding was that the top was 1", you show it to be 7/8th. Or is that the back profile ? I am at work so I can't check the book. Yeh I'm workin hard, why?

Mike, correct you are if you follow the arching in the Benedetto book, the top plate has an arch of about 1" measured from top to bottom or 13/16" if measured from the apex of the arch to the top of the plate. Like I said you can use the Benedetto arching templates or make your own -- the rough drawing shown in the first picture would be for the back plate.

Mike using the method descriped above together with Paul Woolson's desciption of how to hog out the inside of the plate there is no need to practice anymore. It is really not that hard - time consuming yes. Last thing, I wouldn't get hung up about carving exactly to the profile Benedetto does (mind you its a great guide for your first Archtop). If you decide to deviate make sure the apex of your arch (bridge location)is located longitudinally in the same place as Benedetto advises and that if you go with a shallower arch height that you adjust your neck angle accordingly. You don't want to end up with to high a bridge and huge break angle behind the bridge.

Being primarly an archtop builder it's nice to have somemore company here

Anthony,

That is fantastic and a great help as I contemplate my first archtop. I have a practice top ready to start and your tutorial will help a great deal. One question, though: it sounded like you rough shaped the outside of the top and then used the drill press to rough shape the inside. Wouldn't it be easier to do the inside after drilling the outside, but before rough shaping? That way the outside would still provide a flat surface while you drilled the inside. Let me know if I just misunderstood your process.

Kevin

Kevin, sorry I wasn't clearer.

1). Rough shape and smooth the top (convex side) first. Meaning smooth it to near final shape.

2). Carve inside next. Take a scrap piece of plywood with a 1/4" or size diameter dowel drilled and set into the ply (cap with cork/leather or rubber). Clamp the fixture to your drill press table and set the depth stop so the bottom of your drill bit is 5/16" from the top of the dowel. Start drilling holes. The convex or top of the plate rides on the dowel and ensures you have a consistent depth drilled into the bottom. Then hog off the drilled stock down till you see dimples.

I believe this is described in Benedetto's book.Anthony Z38771.536099537

Thanks again. I think you are right, it is in Benedetto's book, but you clarification is appreciated. Kevin

Thanks Anthony, very interesting thread, i was considering building me one in the future, great tutorial!